Please align starting models on multi-starts

Case number:699969-998094
Topic:General
Opened by:Susume
Status:Open
Type:Suggestion
Opened on:Monday, June 30, 2014 - 01:26
Last modified:Sunday, November 23, 2014 - 16:38

When posting a multi-start puzzle like 926, it would help if the starts were aligned with each other, so we could flip back and forth between two models and see the differences. Currently the only way to compare two starting models is to save one, switch to another, and load the saved one as guide. Partial threading is basically impossible if one template is upside-down relative to another. Matching to the guide is the only way to borrow a part from another starting model.

(Mon, 06/30/2014 - 01:26  |  14 comments)


spmm's picture
User offline. Last seen 36 weeks 3 days ago. Offline
Joined: 08/05/2010
Groups: Void Crushers

I am not sure how to align guide from a segment or structural piece in selection interface - been so long since I did a QTTN - the hot keys seem to have changed.
Is it only available in the advanced interface?

beta_helix's picture
User offline. Last seen 3 days 4 hours ago. Offline
Joined: 05/09/2008
Groups: None

I manually aligned the two starting models for Puzzle 938: CASP11 T0838: WeFold Round: http://fold.it/portal/node/998147

Let me know if that helped or not (as currently this can only be done manually when we post a puzzle).

beta_helix's picture
User offline. Last seen 3 days 4 hours ago. Offline
Joined: 05/09/2008
Groups: None

Has this been helpful?

We have manually aligned the multi-start models for puzzles 938, 941-944.

Please let us know if this has been helpful or not (since it does add time to the puzzle-posting process) so we can perhaps automate this for future multi-start prediction puzzles.

Thank you for your feedback!

Susume's picture
User offline. Last seen 2 days 15 hours ago. Offline
Joined: 10/02/2011

I certainly found it helpful on 943 and 944. You can restart through all the starts, then switch between them using Z and shift-Z and actually see what the differences are. Puzzles where the starting models are similar benefit most from having them aligned. Since so few people have weighed in on the feedback, though, I'm not sure it is benefiting very many players.

wisky's picture
User offline. Last seen 4 weeks 2 days ago. Offline
Joined: 07/13/2011

YES! This was actually helpful! Thank you for indulging sus on this :) I think this is a positive change to multi-start puzzles. Let's you see very quickly and easily what has been changed between the starting models.

spmm's picture
User offline. Last seen 36 weeks 3 days ago. Offline
Joined: 08/05/2010
Groups: Void Crushers

If they are aligned visually in the 3D space then yes that is helpful but we only seem to have multi-start puzzles for CASP these days so maybe put it on the list for next time.

beta_helix's picture
User offline. Last seen 3 days 4 hours ago. Offline
Joined: 05/09/2008
Groups: None

Thanks for the feedback everyone!

Susume's picture
User offline. Last seen 2 days 15 hours ago. Offline
Joined: 10/02/2011

I noticed something strange on puzzle 1016. The templates in the alignment tool are aligned (making partial threading possible, hooray!), but the starts we get by resetting the puzzle are not aligned with each other, so we can't flip between them in the undo menu and get a sense of what the similarities/differences are.

Susume's picture
User offline. Last seen 2 days 15 hours ago. Offline
Joined: 10/02/2011

It turns out if you use the alignment tool to put each of the alignments into the undo graph, the resulting poses will be aligned and you can flip between them and compare/contrast. The tab window will not tell you which one you are looking at though, so if you care about that, be sure to lay them into the undo graph in order and keep track of which one you settle on.

spmm's picture
User offline. Last seen 36 weeks 3 days ago. Offline
Joined: 08/05/2010
Groups: Void Crushers

seems to be a lot more effort than just setting up a track for each of the five poses which you 'should' need anyway- and opening the track window and clicking thru each one adjusting the pose until you are happy with the animation.
What are the additional benefits apart from 'using the alignment tool' ?

spmm's picture
User offline. Last seen 36 weeks 3 days ago. Offline
Joined: 08/05/2010
Groups: Void Crushers

oh of course if you are copying another pose onto your own structure then the alignment tools is the way to go.

beta_helix's picture
User offline. Last seen 3 days 4 hours ago. Offline
Joined: 05/09/2008
Groups: None

Thanks for pointing this out, Susume... this was my bad as I forgot to manually align them (as we had done during CASP11).

This is exactly why I had wanted this alignment process to be automated (to compensate for human forgetfulness!) but we never got around to addressing that during CASP or after it ended.

spmm's picture
User offline. Last seen 36 weeks 3 days ago. Offline
Joined: 08/05/2010
Groups: Void Crushers

I have also added another page to the wiki to help people with partial threading - http://foldit.wikia.com/wiki/Partial_Threading - step by step - only 5.

Joined: 09/24/2012
Groups: Go Science

Thanks spmm ! I wondered how to do this.

Sitemap

Developed by: UW Center for Game Science, UW Institute for Protein Design, Northeastern University, Vanderbilt University Meiler Lab, UC Davis
Supported by: DARPA, NSF, NIH, HHMI, Amazon, Microsoft, Adobe, RosettaCommons