Make Wiggle Low the Default Setting

Case number:845813-997771
Topic:Game: Tools
Opened by:karstenw
Opened on:Wednesday, May 21, 2014 - 14:20
Last modified:Sunday, June 1, 2014 - 12:37

--If I am working in low wiggle and the client crashes, I often forget to change settings. I end up working in auto. Once that happens there is no going back (for the most part), this is extremely frustrating to say the least.
--If I am working in auto or medium (and the default were to be low), it's only an inconvenience if I forget to change settings. I can just move it up and continue on.

(Wed, 05/21/2014 - 14:20  |  12 comments)

wisky's picture
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Joined: 07/13/2011

I'm inclined to agree with you, kars, but the devs have already stated they wanted the default wiggle power to be able to correct unidealities in the protein's backbone.

I still think low default would be a better option.

lincher's picture
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Joined: 02/20/2014

I give my vote to this too and if the devs really want to correct unidealities then they just have to merge the low and auto so that we don't need to change it and that their default is our default.

Joined: 06/24/2008
Groups: Void Crushers

I think we should be able set our own default.

jeff101's picture
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Joined: 04/20/2012
Groups: Go Science

See for more discussion about what the default wiggle power should be.

Joined: 04/15/2012
Groups: Beta Folders

My solution: Add tutorials for wiggle power and let players decide. There you go.

Because, you see, if we set it to low, we'll have all of the new players handing in solutions filled with unidealities, and further behind in their scoring that they already may be (if they don't know about the usage of medium/high).

Plus all the users that would be annoyed with wiggle switching to low and loosing their idea of potential work...

spmm's picture
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Joined: 08/05/2010
Groups: Void Crushers

ADB - if the default is low no one looses anything. You only loose if you change tracks or crash and reopen and get set to auto.

I don't really think people need to have a tutorial to try out low, auto and medium choices.

It should be the players choice of default in the same way it is the player choice of strategy to suit their playing style.

It certainly should not change unexpectedly and it not be obvious that a change has been made.

It is hard to see the difference between selected or unselected buttons in the dialog.

Have you tried opening one of your groups highest scoring solutions, selecting all and pushing the 2 key on your computer to idealise it? You may find the top scorers are also ' handing in solutions filled with unidealities'.

Joined: 09/21/2011

Everything spmm said in both of her comments.

Joined: 09/21/2011
Groups: Void Crushers

I only not want to work in low in the endgame OR to repair a bad part using local wiggle.
Pls make low the default or let the players decide what their default should be. And NEVER NEVER change the setting when changing tracks or puzzles. The current behavior is frustrating to say the least.

spmm's picture
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Joined: 08/05/2010
Groups: Void Crushers

This is about precise wiggle, remember that one?

Precise wiggle is better at getting to the absolute top of the nearest peak in the score function. But until the end of a search, the extra effort can actually be detrimental as it makes it easier to get stuck at local maxima in the score function. In our automated Rosetta protocols, we find it best to use less precise minimization (wiggle) until near the end of a search trajectory. I'd expect that optimal strategies in FoldIt would similarly start wtih less extensive wiggle searches at the beginning and make them more intensive towards the end.

The practical difference between precise wiggle and medium wiggle (idealisation) is not entirely clear to me.

Joined: 04/19/2009

From this feedback and the previous one, every player who has weighed in has asked that we either have:

1. Low as default

2. Set your own default

3. Or at least have memory from track to track at what a player has set for wiggle power.

NO player has said that they like using Auto as a default, and the reasons are varied. Can a dev please explain why on earth we are still stuck with this (after many have said it has wasted their time)?

If there is no good reason - then please get a fix out in your next release - it's irritating the heck out of many players.

PS - and please change the highlight "color" for the wiggle powers as they are very difficult to distinguish (as has been requested in feedbacks). That should simply be a matter of inserting the color value of what you currently use for the highlighting for the Actions, Undo, etc bar.

Joined: 12/27/2010
Groups: None

I agree with all of the above. What strikes me is that the people who are asking for this change are the top folders - worth listening to I would think.

spmm's picture
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Joined: 08/05/2010
Groups: Void Crushers

thanks Tony, I'm certainly not a top folder but this auto change is making things much harder (and yes I know I don't 'need' to play all of the puzzles).

If you don't want us to play low then just get rid of it. Please stop the 'auto' default, it really provides no benefit as far as I and many others can see, especially when crashing and changing tracks, either of which may happen quite frequently.

This is not a day job, we are not being trained in a superior technology and as far as 'dumb' mistakes are concerned you may like to reference the idiom of the 'pot calling the kettle black'.

And again, if nothing else, at least make it really OBVIOUS which wiggle power is being used at all times in all interfaces please.

Even to the extent of a dialog saying: 'Dave, which wiggle power would you like to use after restarting that client, and that puzzle, and that track, after that nasty 'unexpected' crash?"

Or perhaps 'Mr Clippy here: we noticed that you just changed tracks, we have set your wiggle power to HIGH which is available in this puzzle, so you can get the job done faster'. We have a big ok button but you have to get a magnifying glass out to see the 'I don't want to do that thanks' flat marginally differentiated text :P



Developed by: UW Center for Game Science, UW Institute for Protein Design, Northeastern University, Vanderbilt University Meiler Lab, UC Davis
Supported by: DARPA, NSF, NIH, HHMI, Amazon, Microsoft, Adobe, Boehringer Ingelheim, RosettaCommons