Individual profiles should show group history including joining and unjoining date and time

Case number:699969-994985
Opened by:smilingone
Opened on:Sunday, April 21, 2013 - 18:58
Last modified:Thursday, February 5, 2015 - 14:18

As it stands, if a group isn't closed anyone can join and grab recipes and evo's. They can immediately leave the group without anyone realizing they have ever been there. This is why I keep my group closed.

A suggestion I have to mitigate this is for group history to show on profiles. Anonymous profiles created just for this purpose would end up being found out as this history builds.

The groups themselves should have a history log of joins and unjoins along with time and date.

The comment section of the new rules reminded me of this issue:

(Sun, 04/21/2013 - 18:58  |  8 comments)

Joined: 09/19/2011
Groups: Beta Folders

Look at this recipe and comments... more reason to implement my suggestion.

Joined: 09/19/2011
Groups: Beta Folders

This was missed. Too bad I couldn't simply edit the above response.

Joined: 09/24/2012
Groups: Go Science

I agree with this suggestion.
Possible unnoticed cheating is really a problem, not only to protect our solutions but also draft or group recipes.
In a former quite good open group (l'Alliance Francophone), I suspected 2 times someone cheating our rank 1 share on middle game(a jump of 200 points to get exactly at our level, then another player of the same team with the same jump). In discussions between us, we thought it was not possible but now I know this is possible (and even easy). I suppose and I expect that verifying e-mail adresses could limit the creation of many clones.

It is really a pity that one has to close a group because of possible cheating. Linguistic groups are there to welcome new players and learn them something. I noticed most of the linguistic groups are open. Most of the top groups are closed (which makes them not very friendly at first feeling).

The suggestion of a log (including actions like loading a solution) would allow the moderator to identify possible cheaters in case of serious doubt and to complain to the foldit team for verification.

Related suggestion: Clones are easy permanent clandestine passengers within a group. The way Foldit opens on log in encourages the creation of clones. Would it be possible to hide the "create new account" button when somebody saved his account userid? (in order to diminish the temptation). Or to limit the number of accounts saved to,say, 2? (a second back up account can be usefull for chats or tests in case of bugs).

Joined: 09/24/2012
Groups: Go Science

To be precise: I agree with the log. A personal history would not avoid the problem of clones being permanent "clandestine passengers" in (even closed) groups.
I do not know if it is possible to identify, via the personal settings (real name, e-mail adress, IP adress, pc ID ...) clones that are present in different groups at the same time.

I specially just created a new account with same settings and a different e-mail adress, I joined my former group and friends and I proved them the danger of letting the group open by writing in their forum with my real name, only to recommend them to close their group ! What a pity to be obliged to recommend this ! Note that the advantage of open group is that they are transparent = much bigger chance of cheaters in closed groups and soloists than in open groups ...).

The suggestion of smilingone would allow to delete this alias but not to identify me. So, I think the clones are the biggest potential problem.

Another suggestion: closed groups (and soloists?) should also be in a way more transparent in order to easy social control. For example, an open listing of group recipes and of subject lines of the forums posts (without being able to download them)? Or a system of guest management (guests could freely come and see listings in closed groups, a way to see if they are interested to join)? May be a good idea as an option for the group management? (a kind of free tour available?). With the advantage of encouraging soloists to join groups.

Joined: 09/24/2012
Groups: Go Science

Any player who ever joined a group is potentially favored in soloist ranking.

This could be a sufficient reason to at least inform, in the status, that a player "never" joined any group.

spmm's picture
User offline. Last seen 33 weeks 2 days ago. Offline
Joined: 08/05/2010
Groups: Void Crushers

It would be helpful to have the group size, type, etc in Especially for new players.
I agree that showing group history of joins and quits would possibly be useful for some groups and could be displayed on/from the group page, accessible to everyone.

I don't see how anyone can access solutions or recipies from a closed group. If you have a closed group is this an issue?

Using the script mentioned above would still require access to the solution, obviously good it has been removed but I still see lots of people high in the evolver ques suddenly jump up in soloist, without using special scripts.

Open groups need to be aware that solutions and scripts are also accessible. It would seem that the open groups are not consistently high scoring but it is hard to tell.

If one or two people are hopping between open groups is that a huge problem in the scheme of things? Especially given the limited developer resources available, talented though they are :D
It would be useful to quantify the problem but not letting several family members have their own accounts on the same computer and game client is not helpful, or family friendly particularly given the compute specs needed to play the game.

Or maybe I am just confused by Bruno's posts :)

xiando's picture
User offline. Last seen 4 years 28 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 10/19/2008
Groups: Oma Gawd

To be honest, with all the supposedly altruistic talk for years about "sharing is caring" and all the other trite sayings and condescending arguments the group side of the equation has brought to bear, generally against individual players in functional terms (classically ripe Eurosnob commissar post just few posts above that exemplifies the blatant disdain for soloists) , I'm surprised you are so concerned about people "stealing" "your" recipes. After all, according the "sharing is caring" logic of the group movement, all of this should be shared without any reservation whatsoever, and without batting an eyelash at those who do as you've outlined. They're simply following your paradigm.

I am not at all confused by Bruno's posts, as they reveal his philosophy all too well. It's an example of the fundamental differences that drove my ancestors to flee Europe centuries ago, and in part why I effectively disengaged from the project.

In truth, what you folks want is hegemony working solely in your favor. What you deliver is consistently low project participation as you continue to drive people away.

The project would be served far better by directing and encouraging participant abilities to the purpose of the game, rather than trying to engineer a virtual communist state like Bruno seems to be wishing for from this and other threads in which he speaks his mind.

Just to be clear, when I play on occasion, I do not use recipes. Any recipes. This isn't about me wanting your algorithms. I don't, as I have no use for them and could write them myself were I to want them. It's instead about the overarching hypocrisy of the group paradigm and those who promote it, especially those who use soloists as their undeserved whipping boy. Altruism? Lol, not a chance.

Joined: 09/19/2011
Groups: Beta Folders

xiando... you are taking it way beyond where it should go. The reality I was working under when making the original post was the fact of this being set up as a game. As such, groups compete against each other. Scripts/recipes help get the scores up. The simple reality is people (groups) like to win. ;)

I view this game as a way to help science. At least, I hope it does. My understanding is that the gaming aspect is what keeps more participating.

I'd be perfectly fine not having groups at all and everyone sharing the same scripts. But, that isn't how this was set up.

The problems you speak of go beyond culture or race. It's simply human nature. Not everyone does things from an altruistic point of view. As life moves on we are all affected by other influences.


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