puzzle picture
665: Solo Hand-Folding Diversification Puzzle
Status: Closed


Name: 665: Solo Hand-Folding Diversification Puzzle
Status: Closed
Created: 01/03/2013
Points: 100
Expired: 01/10/2013 - 23:00
Difficulty: Intermediate
Description: This puzzle is the first in a series that we are running to observe how script use and sharing affect diversification. In this puzzle, only GUI scripts are allowed, and sharing has been disabled. After this puzzle expires, the puzzle will be re-posted and LUA scripts and sharing will be allowed. You will be able to load in your solutions from the first puzzle and refine them with scripting and sharing.
Categories: Hand-Folding, Overall, Prediction

Top Groups

1Anthropic Dreams10,331100
3Russian team10,28075
4L'Alliance Francophone10,27064
5Void Crushers10,26355

Top Soloists

1jamiexq 49 114 Anthropic Dreams10,331100
2doug.ehlert 49 1083 Contenders10,31599
3auntdeen 49 1083 Anthropic Dreams10,30097
4Aubade00 49 1083  10,29596
5decbin 49 1083  10,28794

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marie_s's picture
User offline. Last seen 2 years 18 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 05/18/2008
Groups: None
some additional comments by jflat in the chat

Our theory with this puzzle is that sharing and scripting lead to convergence early, before people try to actually give the puzzle a try themselves
so the idea is to delay the scripts and sharing a bit so that people will each get their own reasonable solution, which they can then run scripts and share with their groups
we left GUI scripts open so that simple things like the shake/wiggle combo wouldn't have to be manually done every time
gui bug : it looks like that has been fixed in the upcoming devprev release, though . we're having a few issues with the devprev release, but that should go out fairly soon
the starting structure starts out at around .6 GDT from the native (1.0 means it matches the native perfectly) so there is quite a bit of room for improvement

Joined: 09/21/2011
Groups: Void Crushers
The title of the puzzle is confusing

It is not a real exploration puzzle, there is no contact map.

jflat06's picture
User offline. Last seen 6 hours 24 min ago. Offline
Joined: 09/29/2010
Groups: Window Group

I'll change the title to diversification instead

bendbob's picture
User offline. Last seen 1 year 17 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 05/06/2011
Groups: None
Send an email when Foldit is working as USUAL, not crippled

Whoever thinks forcing users to participate in an experiment that is broken from the start, is not worthy. Please, end this disaster ASAP and let the users have fun again. Please.

marie_s's picture
User offline. Last seen 2 years 18 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 05/18/2008
Groups: None
nobody force you to play all the puzzles

There are now 2 ED, 2 QTTn, 1 design, some contests, I think you can have fun seeing your computer running.
You can also run boinc with rosetta.
Bug are irritating and list of feedback is very very long but this is not a disaster to play a puzzle without recipe.

bendbob's picture
User offline. Last seen 1 year 17 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 05/06/2011
Groups: None
Preferences are what we are talking about

I prefer to use Fold It in the puzzles that are 'vanilla' for lack of a better word, or like the CASP sytle. I do not prefer to participate in the ED/QTTN/Design puzzles. So, I asked for something I prefer.

I am not familiar with "boinc with rosetta."

Thanks for your input.

Angus's picture
User offline. Last seen 4 hours 8 min ago. Offline
Joined: 06/04/2008
Groups: Beta Folders
This puzzle is about as

This puzzle is about as "regular" as you can get, back to the roots of Foldit.

Hand folding to get the best score, no gimmicks.

tamirh's picture
User offline. Last seen 9 years 10 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 05/11/2012
GUI Script crash

The fix should go out on Monday to devprev and then we will push it out to main as soon as possible.

We would like to encourage hand folding as much as possible so we're leaving the puzzle up in the mean time.

Joined: 09/21/2011
Groups: Contenders
maybe we need better script environment, not more hand folding?

So here's how I understand the reason for this puzzle: fold.it is all about the power of hand folding and the importance of human insight, and the users are just all running the same scripts and converging on the same solutions without doing any hand folding, so we're not getting good results and need to be forced to hand fold.

OK, that's one theory, and I agree that the greatest potential of fold.it is about applying human insight and crowd sourcing the folding problem. Personally, though, I believe that applying human insight to the scripts is more important than hand folding, and there is room for dramatic improvement to the script environment, simply by adding a batch mode. That alone would enable a level of automation and analysis that simply isn't feasible today. And yes, I believe it would lead to dramatically improved results.

There's no way to know if the scripts can get good enough to always do better than hand folding. I do know the majority of my wins were without hand folding but none without scripts. Who knows, there was a time not that long ago when most of us would have said that a computer would never beat a grand master at chess.

I'm sure there will always be a need for the excellent GUI, not only for hand folding but for visualization, but can we please get batch mode at least on the list of things to add?

Joined: 12/07/2011
Groups: None
It is fun!

Maybe we need a puzzle like this from time to time.
It is fun. Though it takes too much time.

Roukess's picture
User offline. Last seen 7 years 4 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 10/26/2010
Thanks for this puzzle,

Thanks for this puzzle, coming back to the basics is sometimes really useful =)

Joined: 03/18/2012
Groups: Gargleblasters
Purpose and execution don't match

Going back to basics is indeed a better title. This puzzle is about going back to earlier versions and not about hand folding. Hand folding is crippled. Many instruments for what I consider to be hand folding are disabled: recipes to gather information about the solution, to set bands to a good length for sheets, to simply set CI using your preferred scale (I know at this moment you can actually choose between linear in devprev and logarithmic in main). Yet GUI scripts that can do nothing but dumb successions of rebuilding, wiggling and shaking are endorsed.

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