do we need 3 QTTN?

Case number:699969-994001
Opened by:marie_s
Opened on:Saturday, December 1, 2012 - 08:45
Last modified:Saturday, December 1, 2012 - 18:03

3 QTTN, 1 ED and 1 puzzle with templates

QTTN : I have never played them, I find copying a guide is a boring occupation.
I think they only learn to play QTTN not to fold protein without guide, the usual advice is to put bands to the guide or to run recipes. They dont show the goal of Foldit to help science in playing.

ED : I dont like them too much either but I understand the goal.

1 puzzle with templates: casp roll, so only useful to show what Foldit players can do. Not a great motivation after so much of casp roll and casp10.

Dont you have some unsolve problems in your cupboard we can work on?
Have we try everything we can on perhaps still unsolve problem like flu, nanog, ...?

(Sat, 12/01/2012 - 08:45  |  4 comments)

Joined: 06/17/2010

Yeah, one small QTTN is enough.

Hanto's picture
User offline. Last seen 14 weeks 3 days ago. Offline
Joined: 05/10/2008
Groups: None

Absolutely and Totally Agreed With, Marie and Rav!!!!

steveB's picture
User offline. Last seen 1 year 35 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 01/08/2009
Groups: Void Crushers

Disagree for a number of reasons.

1) The techniques required to fold a protein are best learned in the QTTN environment as it is possible to determine exactly what needs doing to the structure in order to get it to a certain, known, configuration. These techniques can then be remembered, and applied to the 'real science' puzzles at a later date.

2) These beginners puzzles are not QTTNs, they are beginners puzzles and should not take move than 10-15 minutes to solve for an experienced player, so they are just a bit of fun for veteran players, and an essential learning tool for the newer players. A QTTN puzzle starting from an extended chain and having 100+ residues can take days to solve.

3) The Electron Density puzzles require exactly the same techniques to solve as these beginner puzzles. Since the foldit community is currently solving ED puzzles 100% correct to the native, we have made quite a scientific breakthrough in my opinion, as we have various game players able to solve protein structures in a de-novo situation - unthinkable when foldit first started out. Anything that helps players learn the techniques to really fold proteins can't be too much.

4) There are often times when there are 5 or 6 CASP/CASP roll puzzles live, puzzles which I do not enjoy because running endless scripts for days doesn't float my boat.It could be argued that the CASP puzzles do not progress the scientific goals, they are simply evaluation methods to see how well we are getting along in comparison to other institutions, so it is a matter of personal opinion as to what is a 'science puzzle' and what is a waste of time.

5) The beginners puzzles can be seen as an extension of the tutorials and if I was a new player I would welcome as many of these puzzles as I could get my hands on. For example the latest beginner puzzle has disulphide bridges in it. Even if you don't know what these are, it's pretty easy to see in the puzzle that the two little orange side chains give a higher score when close to each other - learning through experience.

6)We have just had an influx of new players, so it's only reasonable to expect more beginner puzzles at this stage.

7) ED puzzles are CASP puzzles. According to foldit central, the de-novos that are currently being played in the ED puzzles are all CASP10 or CASP roll targets that are as yet unreleased to the PDB.

8) Most importantly, I score well in them :) :) :)



bertro's picture
User offline. Last seen 23 weeks 6 days ago. Offline
Joined: 05/02/2011
Groups: Beta Folders

Totally agree with steveB


Developed by: UW Center for Game Science, UW Institute for Protein Design, Northeastern University, Vanderbilt University Meiler Lab, UC Davis
Supported by: DARPA, NSF, NIH, HHMI, Amazon, Microsoft, Adobe, Boehringer Ingelheim, RosettaCommons