puzzle picture
470: Revisiting Puzzle 153
Status: Closed

Groups

RankGroupScorePoints
1Void Crushers10,881100
2Anthropic Dreams10,85983
3Contenders10,84368
4Trailer Trash10,82156
5Androids10,79245
6Go Science10,78437
7foldeRNA10,71729
8ROMANIA Team10,67024
9BOINC.Italy10,65819
10Team Tornado10,61715
11L'Alliance Francophone10,60512
12Russian team10,5949
13chillerdown10,5647
14Hackers10,5555
15Hannah Montana Professional Folding Lodge10,5294
16Foldit UK10,5243
17Mmm Helix Fries.10,5232
18Team Hungary10,4812
19No sport meetings10,4781
20Mojo Risin'10,4651
21SETI.Germany10,4621
22Team Canada10,4581
23Team Texas10,4551
24Street Smarts10,4341
25Crunching Family10,4281


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Comments

spvincent's picture
User offline. Last seen 6 hours 40 min ago. Offline
Joined: 12/07/2007
Groups: Contenders
Improved scores

It seems that the scores for these "revisited" puzzles are quite a bit higher than the scores in the original puzzles. Assuming the scoring function hasn't changed in any way, any thoughts as to why?

spmm's picture
User offline. Last seen 41 weeks 1 day ago. Offline
Joined: 08/05/2010
Groups: Void Crushers
3 things

IMHO these three things would have an influence:

1 Greater individual and collective experience in developing solutions. Including exposure to more protein types and shapes

2 Improved scripts, plus old and newscripts used more effectively (see 1)

3 Faster personal computers, allowing for more experimentation to arrive at a solution

beta_helix's picture
User offline. Last seen 5 days 8 hours ago. Offline
Joined: 05/09/2008
Groups: None
we have noticed the same thing

...which is why we find these puzzles very interesting.

The question is also: is it just the scores that have gotten better (you have all gotten better at optimizing the Rosetta energy function) or are the solutions getting better (closer to the correct answer) which would also explain better scores (lower energies).

Obviously we will need to run a fair amount of these puzzles before we can come to a statistically significant conclusion, but we all agree these results are very interesting (and we hope these puzzles are old enough that they aren't too boring for those of you who played them already).

spmm's picture
User offline. Last seen 41 weeks 1 day ago. Offline
Joined: 08/05/2010
Groups: Void Crushers
'are the solutions getting better'

'are the solutions getting better (closer to the correct answer)'
It would be helpful to have that question answered for each puzzle, soon after they are completed and to compare the two. Is that possible or desirable?
It may be that in some sections solutions are very similar and in other sections quite different, but perhaps still not the 'best' answer.

beta_helix's picture
User offline. Last seen 5 days 8 hours ago. Offline
Joined: 05/09/2008
Groups: None
I realize how frustrating that must be,

but the reason we don't post the solutions (or a Quest to the Native) just after a puzzle closes is that we often want to give you the same puzzle in a different way:

for example the Exploration Puzzles or using Electron Density or adding constraints.

The only way we can gauge the impact of constraints, exploration, or using Electron Density is if we first have a control.

I completely realize that from your end it may seem like we aren't giving you enough information or feedback, and for that we do apologize.

We do try to provide as much information as we can for unsolved cases (since we obviously don't know the correct answer and want to make sure you have all the help you can get) but since those cases are rare we use the standard puzzles to gauge how we can improve the game to help you fold more efficiently.

spmm's picture
User offline. Last seen 41 weeks 1 day ago. Offline
Joined: 08/05/2010
Groups: Void Crushers
fair enough thanks

understand, and I was certainly wondering what we might come up with for this puzzle if we were given it as an exploration or density puzzle.

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Developed by: UW Center for Game Science, UW Institute for Protein Design, Northeastern University, Vanderbilt University Meiler Lab, UC Davis
Supported by: DARPA, NSF, NIH, HHMI, Amazon, Microsoft, Adobe, RosettaCommons