Freezing, bands, wiggles, and frame of reference

Case number:845813-990549
Topic:Game: Tools
Opened by:pcappadocia
Opened on:Monday, September 26, 2011 - 16:27
Last modified:Thursday, September 29, 2011 - 11:50

Freeze and Pull:
If a person wants to keep a chunk of a model stationary on the screen, he/she can freeze it. A freeze will not allow a segment to move by pulling with the mouse. This is visually and spatially very useful. It is especially useful when using a guide, or when a person is satisfied with a partial solution of a protein.

Freeze and Bands (Is this a bug?):
A frozen segment is not stationary when wiggling or when using a band. A visual frame of reference is lost. Essentially, all the detail work is lost, and everything bends.

Could you make the freeze functions consistent as per "Freeze and Pull"
Alternate Solution:
If it is not the intent of freeze to work that way could you instead add a "Reference Segment" feature that allows the user to specify one segment of a model which will remain visually stationary in position and orientation in 3D model space. This segment could be chosen as needed by the person folding.

(Mon, 09/26/2011 - 16:27  |  9 comments)

Ayelis's picture
User offline. Last seen 8 years 21 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 09/19/2011
Groups: xkcd

I agree! I first assumed that 'frozen segments' were frozen in place, on the stage, in reference to the guide, and in reference to other frozen pieces, which also should have been frozen to the stage. I was wrong.

As it turns out, two non-contiguous freezes will not be frozen in place. If you want to freeze a major section of the protein, you have to freeze each section in between, and then align the guide after moving the protein.

I hope they fix it soon! :)

B_2's picture
User offline. Last seen 5 years 26 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 11/29/2008
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Do you assume it needs to be "fixed" because it just doesn't work the way you think it should?

Maybe you should watch, listen, and read for a while before making judgements based on your 1 week of experience with the game.

Ayelis's picture
User offline. Last seen 8 years 21 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 09/19/2011
Groups: xkcd

No I assume it needs to be fixed because this is a bug report. D:

As a counter-question; Do you assume something shouldn't be fixed just because it's a feature you never use?

Ayelis's picture
User offline. Last seen 8 years 21 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 09/19/2011
Groups: xkcd

As a second counter-question; Do you need to sit in front of a video game for more than a week before you realize your character has fallen through the map?

You have to realize, some of us come from a gaming background, having heard that this is supposedly a "game". Some of us have experience in the professional Game Test industry, running test-cases on entertainment software. For a living. Making good money.

When all else fails, follow the age-old adage...
"Lighten up; it's just a game."

Joined: 06/17/2010

This was reported many times earlier.
Frozen parts cant be pulled, but can be wiggled.
We should have possibility to lock frozen part in space (for QTTN and ED puzzles) and pull frozen part by hand (for denovos and all other).

Joined: 09/21/2011
Groups: None

Hi B_2,
I can appreciate that you've been on this since 2008, but really, you're attitude is terrible. It is not unreasonable to have a model program that has a feature that protects the position and orientation of a part of the model from arbitrary or accidental change.
The fact that 'Frozen' lacks consistency between pulled and banded/wiggle when the user interface uses the same graphic, and mouse motion (w/wo shift depressed and connected/not connected) is counter intuitive as far as user controls and GUI designs are concerned.
I don't know anything about you, but if you had a more useful response (such as a reason for it's current behaviour or how to successfully lock/freeze a model against all other features) it would have been a better use of your comment space.

Do you have a reason for it's current behaviour?
Do you have a successful method for locking against wiggle?

If you do, please post either or both.


B_2's picture
User offline. Last seen 5 years 26 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 11/29/2008
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Type: Bug » Suggestion

I still don't regard this as a "bug", since it's not "broken".

This is an enhancement suggestion.

IF you all took the time to read through a couple of years of Feedback suggestions, you would probably find that just about everything that's been posted here in the last week or so has been posted before, many times.

Joined: 05/13/2008

A reasonable response, B_2. It's still a judgement call, but you have seen previous discussions on this topic and come to a reasoned conclusion -- perhaps based on considerations that have not occurred to us newer folders. If you will forgive me (and I hope you will), I have a suggestion on how your response might have been at once more useful and better received:

"This has come up a number of times. (See: [a ref URL, if you have one]). It has generally been concluded that this is not a bug persay; a lot of us actually like the current behavior. For instance, it lets me (use case here).

Perhaps it would be more appropriate to submit this as an enhancement request instead of a bug report."

The most important part of this is that it contains info as to why the current behavior might be considered a feature and not a design flaw. I am speaking out of turn, perhaps, since I am relatively new here myself -- but I too find this behavior troubling and counter-intuitive. I have learned to work around it, but not yet to appreciate it.

A theory: Perhaps if there were only and absolute freeze instead of what we have now, the developers found that other tools (such as shake and wiggle) actually became less effective. Is that what you're getting at?

Joined: 05/13/2008

PS -- it appears that I am being reported as having joined in 2008. That's an error, I joined a few months ago. Perhaps I need to file a bug report. :-)


Developed by: UW Center for Game Science, UW Institute for Protein Design, Northeastern University, Vanderbilt University Meiler Lab, UC Davis
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