error sharing solutions between beta and main after update

Case number:954892-990170
Topic:Developer Preview
Opened by:spmm
Status:Closed
Type:Bug
Opened on:Friday, August 12, 2011 - 10:33
Last modified:Friday, August 26, 2011 - 13:49

I saved a solution before updating to the new dev preview.
Then updated the dev preview.
Then I shared the saved solution; my group are not able to open the shared solution if they are running main: error is ''bad solutionMetadata version''

I opened and resaved the same file after the beta update and still no luck.

Note the first saved version was not the highest scoring solution but a saved one which had not been opened or saved in the beta version.

Saved versions between beta and main have never been a problem previously.
yours
verging on peeved

(Fri, 08/12/2011 - 10:33  |  17 comments)


spmm's picture
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Groups: Void Crushers
Topic: General » Developer Preview
Type: Suggestion » Bug

case info

Joined: 04/19/2009

Not just you, spmm - my solutions also can't be downloaded.

The evos will be interesting for these 2 puzzles since many top folders are using the dev preview and main can't download from them.

beta_helix's picture
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thanks for reporting this problem...

jflat06's picture
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We've added features to the solution file which make loading in solutions from previous puzzles function correctly.

The downside of this means that the old client (i.e., the main client) will not understand this new format, so until everyone is running the same client, this problem is unavoidable.

We realize this is an inconvenience, and we do our best to prevent situations like this.

Joined: 11/10/2007
Groups: Window Group
Status: Open » Open

Marking as noted.

B_2's picture
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This is one of the reasons that the Developer Preview should NOT be allowed to work on live puzzles.

I'm not sure where in the devlopment process that this became allowed, but the "old" way of keeping them separate was needed.

We're now back to where only those running the Developer Preview have access to tools (V2 scripts) that the general user population doesn't.

Joined: 01/19/2011

Brick, yes, we have access to those tools, BUT you do too (if you want to have access to it).

http://fold.it/portal/info/faq

Go to that link and scroll down about halfway, and you'll see something about switching to developer preview. It's easy...

Joined: 06/17/2010
Status: Open » Open

B_2: plz do not change case status if s1 form team set it (except for reopening when bug returns). "Noted" status means that s1 is looking for that, "open" is just a new case.

Also, what keeping you form changing to beta release?
Using dev release I lost my work few times, so taking "good" changes bit earlier than rest of players I get as reward for all odd/strange/terrible/scary troubles dev version makes.
You can play safe on main, or risk in dev. You choose.

In fact I think that "current" beta puzzles should be replaced and refreshed ;]
I we cant play dev on "real" puzzles we cant compare that there is improvement, or there is something messed up and rollback is need asap.

This bug will b fixed when all player will get update that allow load new type of saves. And LUA v2 too. AFIK in next 24 hours or so.

beta_helix's picture
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The reason we had to stop the "old way" of keeping Developer Preview puzzles separate is that we didn't have enough Developer Preview testers because they had to keep switching back and forth to actually play real, active puzzles (the reason most of you actually play Foldit).

As you are surely aware, however, the Developer Preview testers are essential to catch the many bugs that are introduced with new updates. In the past we had many updates to main that caused many problems (often requiring us to revert back once an obvious problem was caught by everyone). Now these bugs are caught early on by the Developer Preview testers, so that players who rather just stay in "main" can be spared from what would be the resulting crash.

I want to thank everyone who does help us catch bugs in the Developer Preview; we appreciate all the crashes, lost solutions and lost points that you go through to help us. You are heroes and IMHO there should be an achievement for you beta testers!

And just to be clear, as everyone else has mentioned: ANYONE can try out the Developer Preview at any time:

Locate your Foldit data directory (see below). Open the file options.txt and change the update_group variable from "main" to "beta".

The data files are in different places depending on your OS:
on Windows XP at C:\Documents and Settings\All Users\Application Data\Foldit\
on Windows 7 and Vista at C:\ProgramData\Foldit\
on a Mac, Ctrl-click on the app and choose "Show Package Contents, then go to Contents/Resources
on Linux, is is the Foldit directory

And yes, please do not change the feedback status to "Open" if we have Noted the problem. If you feel this system does not work, please open a different feedback about it. Thanks!

B_2's picture
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So the choice is to risk all our stored solutions, recipes and anything else to be able to share between Beta and Developer, or have to put up with not being able to share?

That's a bad and worse choice.

If someone were to switch back from Dev to Beta, could they then load and re-save their own solutions so they could be shared with everyone else still on Beta, or are you just *stuck* with Developer once you go there?

I changed the status so that it would be visible again (a topic of another feedback).

jflat06's picture
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The alternative is that we release an under-tested or even untested update straight to main, in which case you get no choice but to suffer the bugs. I'd imagine we would get far more complaints with that system than we do with the current one.

Joined: 06/17/2010

No B_2. This is first time as far I remember that dev->main saves not working. This is because save structure was changed. So dev can read both type and main only own ones.

B_2's picture
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This was never an issue when Beta and Developer could not work on the same puzzles. There was no need to share solutions between Beta (main) and Developer (beta).

I think Developer should work on copies of the "live" puzzles, but not share solutions with the live puzzles. That way the testing would be on the same type of puzzles that are being run live, but without affecting them.

We are getting back to where it is a dis-advantage to people who can't/won't/don't know about the Developer preview because those few who do run it are taking advantage of new features. This was the original argument back in 2008 when certain people were allowed to secretly use future releases of the client with distinctly unfair advantages, and the reason we ended up with the two version thing we have today, except that it got corrupted by letting the Developer version run live puzzles.

beta_helix's picture
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I was confused by "Beta and Developer" since to me those are the same: to use the "Developer preview" you set your options.txt to "beta".

I would not confuse this with the 'BETA' in the Foldit BETA icon since that is as different from this topic as my username: beta_helix.
(Just like when we talk about beta sheets we know that we're not talking about paper versions of the Foldit BETA game or something ;-)

We have 2 modes:

1) The default, regular Foldit that everyone uses; also referred to as "main" for its options.txt flag
2) Developer preview; also referred to as "beta" for its options.txt flag

Back to the topic at hand on 'main' vs 'beta'. Your solution of "copies of live puzzles" is a good one, except that the same problem we faced before arises. There will be fewer beta testers because all their time spent on playing the copies of these puzzle will be wasted if they can't use their solutions.

Brick, would you spend your time playing live puzzles in beta (assuming nothing crashed and it wasn't complicated to use) if you didn't get any credit for it whatsoever? I think you of all people would agree that getting points/ranks/rewards for your hard work in Foldit is necessary, right?
I know that we'd get a few people using beta out the goodness of their heart (or realizing that it's better to catch these bugs early) like we did "back in the old days" but as I pointed out before, we can't go back to the "old ways" because that's how we would end up with bad updates to main that would crash the whole game when we didn't have enough beta testers.

Hopefully we will be able to find a better system at the start of the developer chat today.
(Feel free to continue discussion here before then, especially if you can't make it to the chat)

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I only have one system to run Fold.it. I cannot risk losing all such things as recipes and solutions with a bad Developer Preview. I've been there before, and it's why I won't even allow a download of "main" for a few days after release. If I had a second system to experiment with, I would.

If the Developer Preview installed in a separate file system and didn't affect the live client, then two clients could be run side by side on a sufficiently powerful machine. That could open up some very specific testing of improved functionality - start the same recipe in each client on two copies of the same puzzle.

Expanding the testing time schedule of Developer previews would allow more people to test. In the past, there has sometimes not been even 24 hours between the two releases.

beta_helix's picture
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Seth, jflat06 and I will talk about this bug in the chat tomorrow. We'll start 15 minutes earlier to discuss this.

Joined: 06/17/2010
Status: Open » Closed

Main now have same saves as beta. Closing.

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