bandwidth a problem?

Case number:699969-989623
Topic:General
Opened by:Tony Origami
Status:Closed
Type:Bug
Opened on:Tuesday, April 26, 2011 - 20:40
Last modified:Wednesday, October 12, 2011 - 22:03

Admittedly it is entirely my own fault because of the way I play, running rebuilders and quakers 24 hours a day. However I do find foldit uses more bandwidth than I would like. Is all the information collected by foldit strictly necessary and does anyone else feel the same way?

(Tue, 04/26/2011 - 20:40  |  27 comments)


bertro's picture
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Type: Question » Suggestion

I find that Bytes received by each client (updates from the server every one minute or so) have increased dramatically since September 19th (since the influx of new players maybe) even on a idle client (not running any script or build-in action).

This will A) restrict how many clients I will be able to run overall (and my possible contribution to Foldit), B) have me rethink what I want generally to do with my available bandwidth and still keep my internet usage under control (i.e. monthly billing).

I would like to suggest that the updates from the server be reviewed and adjusted to lower this usage footprint.

Thanks.

Joined: 06/17/2010

You can work offline - but it will become evo when you log back.
You can block foldit client from internet after you enter puzzle - but it will kill chat, you cant load recipes, you cant share your work and client will eventually crash. It will also not update your score on server.

More transfer on more players it is only because of chat.
All your steps are send to foldit central for analysis. This can improve rosetta algorithms.

bertro's picture
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Hi Rav, thanks for you attention to this problem...

I am not talking about uploaded data (like all stuff sent to foldit central for analysis). I am talking about « downloaded » data « from » the server to my PC.

I think it is related to all the updated Scores of each player being downloaded to my client(s). (Maybe the data is « all scores for all players » and the client filters what is to be shown.) One thing is sure, this data is sent to all running clients even if chat does not work on 2nd, 3rd ... clients. The download is still there!!!

I am just asking if someone can have a look at the code and improve (reduce) the downloaded part.

Joined: 09/26/2011
Groups: None

Having known about this program/"game" for apx 10 minutes after seeing it on Fox News and visiting the website. This seems to be a giant LIE with good intentions. You waste your time playing with this thing when in actuality it requires nothing from you at all. Just your CPU bandwidth and your internet bandwidth to send the data it has computed to a mother server and receive a new block of instruction for what to compute next. Basically they are taking many computers and chaining them together to make one huge supercomputer. Thus, decreasing the time that it would have taken to "crack" the code they were trying to decipher. The technology for this has been around over a decade. Now don't you feel smarter? lol

spmm's picture
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Hi max - there is a program called Rosetta@home which you cannot interact with and which uses your computer and bandwidth - it is run by the Baker Lab as well.
foldit is different in it's purpose and use - if you look at the blog articles you will hopefully be able to see the benefits of human interaction as described by the scientists.
They would be unlikely to go to so much effort on the 'game' if the same results could be achieved using Rosetta.

Hola and Ciao to all :-)

Joined: 09/26/2011
Groups: None

I'm assuming that this Rossetta software is proprietary and not open source. So I will leave it there as I am not a computer programmer. Anyway, best of luck to you in selling your new found data to drug manufactures who will bankrupt the end consumers for the rest of their long lives. Chow

Joined: 04/19/2009

Again maximus81 -

It would be great if you stuck around to find out what foldit is about, instead of assuming things that are not true. A little research on your part would go a long way toward educating your assumptions.

:-) happy folding!

beta_helix's picture
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Your assumption is wrong.

Rosetta Software is free for academic and non-profit users, and it can be licensed for commercial use with the commercial license:
http://www.rosettacommons.org/software/

If you read the ABOUT section of our website (http://fold.it/portal/info/science) it might clarify things for you and you'll find a link to the distributed computing Rosetta@Home Screensaver.

Joined: 04/19/2009

@maximus81 -

Thank you very much for having taken the time to make an account so that we can all benefit from your 10 minute "expert" opinion. As spmm has noted, you are misinformed.

Since you've opened the account - why not do the tutorials and play the game to find out what it really is?

vixx's picture
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I have never found it uses too much. I do however only use one client at a time.
I used to have a small data cap and I would be lucky to have hit two thirds of it.

bertro's picture
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Hi vixx,

Please have a look at the two attached files. They show the uploaded and downloaded Bytes for one hour for two Foldit clients running 459. Here are the numbers:

/hour*2 clients /24h*2 clients /30.5Days*2client
Sent(uploaded) Bytes: 957,490,342 - 947,866,013 = 9,624,329 230,983,896 ~7 GB
Received(Downloaded) Bytes: 8,472,883,565 - 8,366,421,298 = 106,462,267 2,555,094,408 ~77 GB

As you can see, even for one client running 24h * 30.5 days, it will represent (~3.5 + ~38.5 =) 42 GB for ONE client.

In my opinion, it is way to much (at least for the downloaded data) even if I run only one client 24 hours a day doing scripts or not.

I understand Foldit must receive the uploaded data for analysis. But surely some of the downloaded data could be compressed, reduced, eliminated or the frequency reduced to get the downloaded amount to a more manageable value.

I wish someone look into this.

Regards,

Bertro

bertro's picture
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Sorry, the formatting did not hold...

Here it is again:

Sent(uploaded) Bytes:
957,490,342 - 947,866,013 = 9,624,329 /hour * 2 clients
230,983,896 /24h * 2 clients
~7 GB /30.5Days * 2clients

Received(Downloaded) Bytes:
8,472,883,565 - 8,366,421,298 = 106,462,267 /hour * 2 clients
2,555,094,408 /24h * 2 clients
~77 GB /30.5Days * 2 clients

steveB's picture
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Thanks for pointing this out Toni Origami, and I agree with you 100 %.

Attached is a graphic of my bandwidth usage over the last month, which has dramatically increased since 19th of the month, the same date reported by bertro.

There is something not right somewhere in the software.

beta_helix's picture
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Status: Open » Open
Type: Suggestion » Bug

We're looking into this... thanks for reporting this bug and for your patience these days!

infjamc's picture
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Just out of curiosity:

Could it be that Foldit is using so much bandwidth because solutions are uploaded to the server at a very high frequency? If so, would it be possible to reduce the frequency without losing too much detail? (For an analogy, it's like reducing the quality setting of a JPEG image from 100 to 95.)

bertro's picture
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@beta_helix: Thanks for considering this a priority.

@infamc: it is the downloaded part that is the major problem, not the uploaded information to the server. But yes, they could probably reduce the frequency of the downloaded data to the client(s). Look at posts 3 and 11 above.

Joined: 11/10/2007
Groups: Window Group
Status: Open » Open

We've posted an update yesterday that should reduce the amount of communication with the server and hopefully bandwidth usage. Let us know if this helps out.

bertro's picture
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Hi Seth Cooper,

Thanks for the reduced communication Update.

Here are the current numbers after the update (from attached files):

Sent(uploaded) Bytes:
1,075,134,948 - 1,066,935,882 = 8,199,066 /hour * 2 clients
196,777,584 /24h * 2 clients
~6 GB /30.5Days * 2clients

Received(Downloaded) Bytes:
9,669,320,721 - 9,634,838,172 = 34,482,549 /hour * 2 clients
827,581,176 /24h * 2 clients
~25 GB /30.5Days * 2 clients

So, a reduction of ~66% [before ~7+~77=~84GB, now ~6+~25=31GB].

Very good for a first improvement but, like Foldit itself, I would like to see you get a better «score».

I used to run 3-4 clients per 24h*month (July-August) and including my whole internet usage (browsing, downloading, online games, ...) was under 30GB. Today, 4 clients «alone» will require ~62GB. Way too much!

In summary, large improvement but would like to play 4 clients for under ~30GB at least.

Thanks again for your dedication to this wonderful «possibly life saving» game.

vixx's picture
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I have just checked mine, which I never do as I never exceed 5GB a month.

Today I have 700MB left of my 10GB plan....that is meant to last me until 13 October.

When client is logged in, I average 1200MB download a day(24hrs)...when it isnt, my maximum was 390MB a day

My highest upload per day was 218MB that was once only ( average is usually under 100MB)

Currently my client isnt logged in and it wont be, as I dont have enough left to test to see if it has reduced.

Vixx with no internet for two weeks..is not a good thing ;)

spmm's picture
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z

Joined: 09/02/2009
Groups: Void Crushers

Hi

I checked my day-by-day Usage Statistics and Foldit is using an average of 1100MB, I was shocked. Without foldit running its about the same as Vixx.

In the past few years foldit has never used this amount of bandwidth before, Why is it so high now ?

If the levels stay this high for long you won`t keep many of the new players and lose some of the long term ones too.

Mat

bertro's picture
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Any changes coming?

beta_helix's picture
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We were hoping the latest update would help and that the reduction in the number of new players would help, but clearly there is something else that is going obviously wrong.

This should be our team's top priority to fix and hopefully we'll figure out the problem.

We really do apologize for this!

beta_helix's picture
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UPDATE: looks like Seth found the problem: The Exploration Map.

With so many solutions uploaded it looks like it got out of control.
For now, we've shut it off (so that no update is required, you should see the immediate effect) and we'll work on compressing it in the future.

Joined: 09/22/2011
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I noticed that my usage was getting chewed up quickly the first day I ran Foldit, so I tend to shut off my Internet connection soon after opening the program. The program appears to run OK without it, until I turn it back on again (at which point, Foldit screws up). So, I have learned to save and close first before reconnecting to the Internet, then re-opening the program.

I think the problem may not be limited to just the Exploration Map, since I have only ever used it during one of the Intro levels. I have not yet attempted a science puzzle that needed it. Unless this particular feature runs in the background, even though not being used, there may be something else causing this problem, too.

Joined: 11/10/2007
Groups: Window Group

I've just posted another update that should further reduce the amount of bandwidth used.

Joined: 11/10/2007
Groups: Window Group
Status: Open » Closed

I've posted another update that adds a 'Reduce network bandwidth' option to the general options menu. The game should use less bandwidth overall than before, but checking this box will cause it to use even less, at the cost of less frequent updates of information.

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