3 rounds of Xplore, 2 days each...

Case number:699969-989523
Topic:General
Opened by:CharlieFortsCon...
Status:Open
Type:Suggestion
Opened on:Wednesday, April 6, 2011 - 23:22
Last modified:Wednesday, September 26, 2012 - 20:57

The new explore adventure - it's close to the insane pressure of the last CASP. 410 is active, as is the Lymph puzzle... Throwing in 3 rounds of Xploration with such short endpoints needs a much more folder-friendly way?

(Wed, 04/06/2011 - 23:22  |  14 comments)


Joined: 12/27/2010
Groups: None

I like short duration puzzles and it is good to have a mix of different durations. I don't think we need to feel any pressure.

Joined: 05/03/2009
Groups: Contenders

First 2 rounds of Xplore have been fun; it's close to the notion of 'Hands only puzzles'... The CASP pressure refers to summer last year, when there were 4 or 5 live puzzles at any one moment, with short deadlines. I'm merely trying to add to the feedback voice, that this implementation of the new exploration puzzle, needs a tweak or three, to get it right.

Joined: 12/27/2010
Groups: None

Fair enough. I wasn't there for CASP but I can imagine that 4 or 5 puzzles would increase the pressure quite a bit.

beta_helix's picture
User offline. Last seen 7 hours 27 min ago. Offline
Joined: 05/09/2008
Groups: None

I am very happy to get feedback on this as we have been wondering about the Foldit puzzle load recently.

Since CASP ended we have decreased the number of active puzzles but we have also worried that maybe there weren't enough puzzles and you might get bored.

For example, if all that is up is a Beginner Puzzle and a Quest to the Native then some players might not be down with that.

I think this week is a good example of too many difficult puzzles at the same time (the Beginner Puzzle is an Intermediate one, since it's not trivial for new players) 1 advanced freestyle and the Exploration Puzzles that were obviously difficult.

We would like to know, in general though, how many puzzles are ideal at the same time?

I'm thinking:

1 month-long Beginner puzzle (that non-beginner Foldit players will only need to play for a few days over the course of that month; these used to be only for <150 but veterans asked to have access to it in order to help new players)

1 advanced puzzle (freestyle, exploration, or difficult design puzzle)

1 normal puzzle (straightforward design puzzle, refinement puzzle, easily threadable alignment puzzle, Quest to the Native)

could all be able to be up at the same time as long as the deadlines don't overlap, right?

Or is that too much?
Do you all prefer to have no more than 2 puzzles up at a time (which includes the month-long Beginner Puzzle)
How many puzzles are too few puzzles?

Thanks for the help, please ask your teammates to post their preferences as well!

Joined: 04/19/2009

If all that is up is a Beginner puzzle & a QTTN, I get a lot of real life work done (and even housework). Almost moved over to EteRNA during one such few day period.

If Beginner puzzles are truly meant for beginners, I'm perplexed at why the veterans who have "asked to have access to it in order to help new players" have their scores counted for global rankings. I really don't think that it can boost a new player's confidence when they have a next to impossible time hitting top twenty, which is always crowded with veterans. Perhaps anyone with over 150 global points should be able to play but not rank. Those of us who are over 150 can then choose to stay away from it if they don't like QTTN (and many of us don't).

For the rest - it can get boring when there is only one puzzle open (other than a Beginner). I would be great to have at least 3 at any given time - I like Seagat2011's suggestion very much.

And also agree with Marie that weekend endings & a diversity of ending times is desirable.

Joined: 09/19/2011
Groups: Beta Folders

I like a max of three at a time.

Joined: 08/24/2010

My preferences:

1 - 1 month-long overlapping Beginner puzzle

2 overlapping 9-day advanced puzzles (freestyle, exploration, or difficult design puzzle)

2 overlapping 4-day normal puzzles (straightforward design puzzle, refinement puzzle, easily threadable alignment puzzle, Quest to the Native)

..at least 4 puzzles ongoing during any week, to minimize attrition, and no more than 5, none of which repeat during a 2-month period (e.g. have Exploration Round 4, in June) all which end no closer than 2 days from each other, and no back-to-back puzzles of similar alignments and skill level (e.g. Exploratory Round 1 ending on the same day Exploratory Round 2 begins).

Joined: 02/23/2011

I like to have a choice so when I get bored or stuck with one, I can go to another. I'd say two puzzles at any one time. If one of those puzzles is guided then three is nice to have.

marie_s's picture
User offline. Last seen 1 year 41 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 05/18/2008
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My preferences
1 puzzle with some creative work (freestyle, exploration, difficult design puzzle) or new shape like beta docking puzzle. It can last 1 week or a little more, it will be great if they end at an hour of maximum audience (on sunday at 21:00 for european and USA ?) and occasionally at a better time for NZ and australians.
2 puzzles with alignement, usual design, step of exploration. They can last a few days and no more than a week and overlapp on each other. For me, have a choice is better, i can always skip a puzzle if I dont have the time.
For time to time: an all-hands puzzle
no QTTN for me.

Joined: 06/17/2010

Best for me:
- 3-4 (best if different types) puzzles at same time,
- at least week for each,
- at last 2 days split between puzzle ends (not day by day).
Love small and fast (<100), hate big ones (>200) :P

spmm's picture
User offline. Last seen 32 weeks 4 days ago. Offline
Joined: 08/05/2010
Groups: Void Crushers

There are a lot of topics being included into this thread which may become confusing and they should perhaps be separated and discussed in context.

I would like to point out that I disagree with the following suggestions AuntDeen, and I don't want to vote the topic down.

If Beginner puzzles are truly meant for beginners, I'm perplexed at why the veterans who have "asked to have access to it in order to help new players" have their scores counted for global rankings. I really don't think that it can boost a new player's confidence when they have a next to impossible time hitting top twenty, which is always crowded with veterans. Perhaps anyone with over 150 global points should be able to play but not rank. Those of us who are over 150 can then choose to stay away from it if they don't like QTTN (and many of us don't).

There is no definition of a 'veteran' (that I am aware of) and certainly as someone who has only been folding for a few months as opposed to years, it was somewhat surprising to see players with over 2 years experience doing beginner puzzles, and evolving them in large numbers. But it makes winning all the sweeter.
If you don't like QTTN don't play them.
It only took me a short time to get over 150 points however I still consider myself to be a beginner folder and I learn a lot from doing QTTN.

People also have a 'next to impossible' time competing with people who are happy with short puzzle length because they run multiple clients on several high powered machines with lots of high speed bandwidth, which gives them a big advantage on a short duration puzzle.
IMHO

Joined: 04/19/2009

spmm - I was quoting from the beta_helix comment that I replied to...

"1 month-long Beginner puzzle (that non-beginner Foldit players will only need to play for a few days over the course of that month; these used to be only for <150 but veterans asked to have access to it in order to help new players)"

Perhaps beta could define it better than I can since he is the one who used the term - but he seemed to define it as people with scores over 150.

As it now stands, because of the decision that beta_helix and the other foldit devs have made concerning this ability to have "veterans" "access" the Beginner puzzles, it is my understanding that if we do not play, it affects our ranking. If I'm wrong about that - I'd really like to know!

I rank very poorly on these, I don't get them, I don't like them, and I spend as little time as possible on them - whatever, just my personal preference, and that of some others.

I have a high-powered machine, but it is a Mac - which has very rarely allowed me to run a full lua script without crashing (most Mac folks have that problem). I can only run one client at a time, or the first one crashes instantly.

We all have our preferences, our focus on what we wish to learn at any given time, and our limitations.

:-)

beta_helix's picture
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Joined: 05/09/2008
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Thank you all for your input on this, we are about to bring back the Multi-Round New-Exploration-Score Puzzles so we want to gauge what is too much (in terms of puzzles up) and too short (in terms of puzzle durations) without having anyone resort to breeding more sheep ;-)

Please ask your teammates to post their preferences if they have not been represented in the above discussion, thanks!

________
To clarify about the Beginner Puzzles, I simply meant that I don't expect non-beginner Foldit players, veteran Foldit players, >150 Foldit players (basically all of the above) to play a Beginner Puzzle for very long, so the month-long puzzle deadline doesn't really count as a puzzle being up for a month.

We didn't even used to have Beginner Puzzles up for anyone with >150 global points, and we agree that it should in no way be worth as much as a normal puzzle that is up for 1 week.
Hopefully this has now been addressed with this: http://fold.it/portal/node/989585#comment-10842

Beginner puzzles are up for 4 times as long as normal puzzles, but only worth half as much as 1 normal puzzle... so hopefully that resolves any issues about them contributing too much to the global rankings.

Joined: 09/21/2011

o.k., new comment now that casp is over. i think puzzle size and expiration date change how many puzzles we can do at one time. little puzzles with many days= more puzzles. 3 plus the qttn is usually good as long as they expire at different times. right now, i'm a little bored. could use another puzzle. my 2 cents.

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