open evo for all to share

Case number:845813-989349
Topic:Game: Tools
Opened by:itskimo
Status:Open
Type:Suggestion
Opened on:Saturday, March 5, 2011 - 21:24
Last modified:Sunday, September 18, 2011 - 12:20

create a new type of open evo for everyone to play and learn in. with an open evo the people who are not in any group who play solos can then share their work with each other, and with the beginers. sure the open evo well get walked but so what, this just means that those people who play solos need to not play the highest evo score but help other people doing solos.and being a new place to share their work and learn.
so everyone can work together the solo people gain by being able to share there work without being on a team, and the beginners learn form those who know how , and the teams win because they are better and if they dont walk then they can win, so no down side, eveybody wins so please think about it. it is no big change to start an open evo place for everyone to play and share their work, a solo share place too, is it?, thanks :)

(Sat, 03/05/2011 - 21:24  |  13 comments)


Joined: 10/03/2010
Groups: Go Science

I think it's a great idea to allow the players who don't belong to a group a chance to learn and play the evo side of the game. I think it could be rather like having public and group recipes. There could be a public evo, and the players that want a better evo experience would be able to find it in the group of their choice, just like recipes. I'd really like to see this happen!

Joined: 12/27/2010
Groups: None

Good idea, I like it!

Joined: 05/09/2008
Groups: Void Crushers

Kind of like an all hands puzzle?

Joined: 06/17/2010

That type shared evo will be for sure use as guide to make same solo...
We need different approach to protein folding, different ways to make same goal, and different results.
QTTN puzzles shows us a target and we need to reach it.
AFIK foldit goal is to learn folding supercomputer how humans fold by analyzing zillions of human folds and ways we use to hit score/target.

... or just add everyone to group "default foldit group" ;]

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Joined: 08/10/2010
Groups: foldeRNA

yes thank you Rav for the great idea of a defualt foldit group so everyone can share their solos and do evos without haveing to join a team, easy to do :)

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Joined: 08/05/2009
Groups: Contenders

Sounds a bit like 'All-Hands' puzzles, which have been tried before and didn't work. Everyone tends to work on the highest scoring solutions or would try to copy the highest scoring solutions to their solos, so they all end up going in the same direction. Not good for the science. Also, what is to stop someone from one group copying a higher scoring solution from another group?

There may be a way to have some kind of 'soloist evolver group' whereby soloists are able to evolve solutions uploaded by other soloists. This would not be accessible to group members. Although, it would still result in some convergence of all the solo solutions it would help to retain the divergence between groups. Then you would have to find some way of stopping people in groups from using other accounts to access the best soloist solutions and opening them alongside their own to copy.

Evolvers have their part to play in the competition but when they are open to everyone they just reduce the overall exploration done by individuals.

Mark

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Joined: 08/10/2010
Groups: foldeRNA

yes thank you mark you are right that the shared solos should only be accessed by non team members.

Joined: 05/03/2009
Groups: Contenders

Yes, the 'all-hands' and 'gallery' puzzles are there already, but have proved to be disappointing in how newer players approach them. The problem with using a 'point based carrot' approach, is that pesky hoomans will always use the shortest workaround to defeat it. The aspiration of new player exploration, curing disease, and furthering the notion of a more harmonious universe, is a laudable pursuit, but is perhaps beyond the remit of even the small UW dev team, when the stock advice that appears on global now, is no longer 'explore and find your own way' but 'find the bestest recipes'.

From that point of view, what would be the point of running a revised version of the 'all-hands' with a universally accessible evo? It's an interesting recruitment tool possibly, but other than that?

I fight the hooman fight occasionally in global, since FoldClub was created specificly to encourage the human involvement - and I get sad when new players are either hoovered up into groups to chase points, or encouraged to download scripts before they even know what the 'blue crooked thing pointing up' actually is. We play our own game in our own way, I know, but there seems to have been a reduction of choice somehow.

CFC

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User offline. Last seen 7 years 19 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 08/10/2010
Groups: foldeRNA

yes thank you CFC for your great insight. i have always wondered if the solutions to the denovo puzzles were of any scientific value if they were made by helix spagetti. even tho they score high do the solutions realy do anything for the scientest or are the speggetti soultion just that, a mixed up mess?

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Joined: 08/05/2010
Groups: Void Crushers

Perhaps everyone is forgetting how hard Foldit is as a newbie with zero science background? There are some really easy tutorials and then these days new starters can walk straight into a de novo and a design puzzle! If they are lucky they get a 3 stage (<15, <150, all) puzzle.

Most of my limited skills I developed from loading group solutions as guides and attempting to match them if there was no guide on the puzzle. Because even if I had ideas of what to do I didn't have the skills to enact them and I needed the practice. All people are different, some newbies like Tony O come in and score near the top in their first few puzzles but that is not very common.

These days I look at group solutions, if there are any, to see the different solutions people have developed. Even if I am stuck it is usually too hard to restructure and beat my own best score that late in the puzzle.

It would hopefully be simple enough to restrict an open evo to players with less than a certain number of global points. Yes of course old hands could re-register and attempt to copy the solution, but controlling that is another conversation.

It would also mean that new players would not be virtually forced into joining groups immediately in order to learn anything.
They would then hopefully make wiser choices.
IMHO.

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Joined: 08/10/2010
Groups: foldeRNA

Spmm you are right Yes, Yes, Yes. this is the real problum of learning the transition to teams, without any mid to advanced tutorials, and no guides to follow, or solutions to work on study and share. new players dont have a place to learn.

Joined: 06/17/2010

A bump.
Maybe we should allow "share to everyone" as add on to current "share to myself" and "share to group" options?
Switching to evo on load as guide and/or into threading tool should prevent flood of identical solo solutions.

Joined: 05/03/2009
Groups: Contenders

But but but...

The new 'load guide switch to evo' is so easy to defeat, I wonder if it's already pointless? As a weapon against the solo matching flood, it doesnt work, and will not work. There is a legitimate use of 'guiding' within teamwork, seeing how your team-mates have improved your shared solution.

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