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Joined: 11/10/2007
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This topic is for feedback on the new Pull Tool and Auto All.  Are they useful?  Stable?  How could they be improved?

spvincent's picture
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Pull Tool

This works for me, strangely, in Puzzle 31 but not 32 (on the Mac). Also it doesn't seem that there's any control key modifier that will mimic the right hand mouse button.

Joined: 11/10/2007
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In what way does it not work

In what way does it not work on Puzzle 32?  You can mimic the right button by holding down shift, on either Mac or Windows.

spvincent's picture
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Sorry : my mistake. What I

Sorry : my mistake. What I was doing was clicking; getting no feedback, and assuming the tool wasn't working properly. What you have to do is click then drag : feedback doesn't happen until you drag.

spvincent's picture
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Well now I'm seeing the same

Well now I'm seeing the same behaviour described by Ferzie: it works on 31 but not on 32: I can add and delete rubber bands but nothing turns purple on click and drag.

Joined: 11/10/2007
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Ok, I'll try to reproduce

Ok, I'll try to reproduce this.  Do you have to do anything specific to get it to not work, like switch puzzles, or does it just not work right away now?  Do you have any bands or locks on your solution?  Does the mouse cursor still change and backbone highlight when you mouse over?

ferzle's picture
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Can't pull...

I used the pull tool earlier, but now I try the pull tool, and when I pull, nothing happens.  I tried to use other tools and go back to the pull tool, but it still doesn't want to pull.  This is happening on puzzle 32.  I switch to puzzle 31 and it works fine.  I switch back to 32, and it doesn't work again. I can add rubber bands, but nothing else seems to work.

Joined: 11/10/2007
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Which part of Puzzle 32 are

Which part of Puzzle 32 are you trying to pull?  How much of it turns purple?  Are some parts locked (they will be grayed out)?

ferzle's picture
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I tried to pull all over,

I tried to pull all over, and it won't move anywhere (I didn't try every single strand, but at least in 6-8 places).  I don't remember about colors right now, but I think nothing changed color when I was trying to pull.  I didn't lock anything on purpose and I don't think any of it was grayed out.  I also tried to lock things and that didn't work, either.  It seemed the only part of the tool that was functioning properly was the rubber bands (placing them).

Joined: 11/10/2007
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You have to click and drag a

You have to click and drag a bit on the backbone to pull it, not just click and release.  When you start pulling, the part affected by the pull should turn purple. This works in Puzzle 31 but not 32 for you?

ferzle's picture
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No, I understand how to use

No, I understand how to use the tool.  What happened is that is worked on both puzzles 31 and 32 at first.  Then it just stopped working on puzzle 32. It works fine on the other computer I played on, but on my laptop, it stopped working.  I just restarted it and it still won't work on puzzle 32.  The backbone is colored normally--no gray or purple parts.

By the way, when I restarted it on my laptop just now, it seems to have started me at the initial configuration instead of my last configuration for puzzle 32.  When I switched to puzzle 31, it was my last configuration.  Somehow it seems my puzzle 32 configuration file is corrupted or something...

Joined: 11/10/2007
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Thanks for this information,

Thanks for this information, I think I see how this might be happening.  Did you use any other tools on the protein before the pull tool stopped working?  Are you still able to lock and unlock the sidechains?

Joined: 11/10/2007
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Ok, it looks like reset

Ok, it looks like reset puzzle could mess up some of the data that the pull tool needed.  This has been fixed and I'll post an update shortly.  Thanks for helping find this problem!

Joined: 11/10/2007
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The fix has been posted. 

The fix has been posted.  This post should also fix the problem starting up if you had autosaved with bands on your protein.

ferzle's picture
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Seems to work now. 

Seems to work now.  Hopefully it continues to do so.

ferzle's picture
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I probably used other tools,

I probably used other tools, but don't remember which, except for drag, shake all and wiggle all.  I might have used the rubber band tool or backbone tool, and maybe another one, but not sure.  I cannot lock or unlock sidechains with the tool.  The only part of the tool that seems to work is setting rubber bands.

Joined: 11/10/2007
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Are there any opinions about

Are there any opinions about using the Pull Tool and Auto All?  How does the Pull Tool compare to say, the Drag Tool or the Rubber Band Tool?  Could it replace them?  How does Auto All compare to Shake All and Wiggle Backbone?

ferzle's picture
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So far, Auto All has done

So far, Auto All has done nothing for me. Shake All and Wiggle Backbone still seem to do the best job for me.

The Pull tool is O.K.  I guess I don't quite understand how the rubber band part works--it doesn't seem to help me much. 

I would say the Pull tool could NOT replace the drag tool as the drag tool still seems to be the best tool.

Of all of the tools I have tried, it seems I can get good scores by just using the Drag, Shake All, and Wiggle Backbone tools (and Undo, of course).

By the way, is anyone else bothered by the fact that the tools all require the shift key to activate?  Why involve complicated key combinations when single key commands are available?

A final comment:  It would be better if the experimental tools had hotkeys, since it would make them easier to use and test.  One reason I haven't tested the Auto All tool more is because it is easier to hit Shift-E and Shift-S than it is to move the mouse to do Auto All.

spvincent's picture
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Auto All does nothing

Like Ferzie, I don't see the use of this and wonder if its working as its supposed to. I've tried it many times and have never once seen the score increase, even on an unfolded protein.

Joined: 11/10/2007
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Auto All basically just

Auto All basically just alternates Shake All and Wiggle Backbone, so the hope is that it would have a similar effect without as much button pushing.  We can add hotkeys for these new tools.

ferzle's picture
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Auto All is fine, but it

Auto All is fine, but it can't replace Shake and Wiggle since sometimes shaking before wiggling changes the structure quite a bit.

Since I don't really understand what shake and wiggle do, maybe this suggestion won't make sense, but can they have a parameter that specifies how much they do their thing?  Maybe this won't work with shake, but I imagine that wiggle might be able to have a parameter so that it wiggles more or less. 

Joined: 11/10/2007
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Since they are useful

Since they are useful separately, we will most likely keep them separate at this point for competition puzzles.  However, we think Auto All could be useful in early puzzle levels, to introduce Wiggle and Shake without having to discover the best way to use them separately.

ferzle's picture
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I have to amend what I said

I have to amend what I said previously--I just gained a hard-earned 9 points on level 33 using the pull tool.  I tried with the drag tool for about half an hour and got nowhere, so I decided to try the pull tool instead, and on the first pull/wiggle, I got 1 point.  I got another 8 over the next several minutes.  So it appears that using a combination of drag and pull can be helpful.

One of my new strategies is to drag/shake/wiggle until I cannot get any improvement, then pull/shake/wiggle, etc.

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